Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Positve politics

I think Adam Price said something to the effect that the pledge on the anti-Tory coalition gave politics a bad name. It was nice to see Leighton Andrews blog showing Plaid's positive politics at work.

15 comments:

menaiblog said...

Jesus - you've got plenty of brass neck if little else.

Your blog is one long, tiresome exercise in negative politics.

BTW - the blog is in a sense interesting in that it's stuck in a time warp - 1997 New Labour style anti political establishment carping negative politics - despite the fact that you are the political establishment.

Cymro said...

I think that I have to agree with the above. This blog seems rooted in name-calling and sneering. Plaid have said that they will work with the Tories, and anybody else. So what?

Isn't that what politics is about - discussing things with people and reaching a consensus? If the Tories decide to revert to their old games, Plaid can stop talking to them - on our terms, not theirs. Far better than never talking to anyone except those who agree with you all the time!

That's why your 'Vote Plaid and get the Tories' talk is just laughable. A real government would discuss its achievements - but Welsh Labour has achieved nothing positive for Wales.

As for your masters in London - rising inequality, an illegal war, wasting £85 bn on Trident... Great record.

And you still duck the child poverty question.

Martin Eaglestone said...

Gald to see you enjoy it - there's plenty others out there if this one is not too your taste !

By the way its a picture of Plaid Cymru and their snail not me.

Cymro said...

I'm not going anywhere, Martin - it's just that I think the people of Arfon would rather you actually hold a proper political discussion than hear you call people snails.

Sion said...

Pot calling kettle black eh Cymro...

You attack Martin for name calling and sneering...yet you're sole reason for existance seems to be doing that against a Labour candidate who is speaking up for the people of Arfon.

You talk about politics being all about discussing things and reaching a consensus...but you have no intention of reaching a consensus with Martin at all.

You're simply on hear to shout down and argue.

Funnily enough I wonder if you are doing this against the local Tory candidate...or is there more truth in the Tory/Plaid pact that you care to admit???

Cymro said...

First of all, Sion, I think I'd rather find a point of agreement with Labour than the Tories! Just because you work with someone - for the good of your country - doesn't mean you have to like them!

The Tories are the party of cuts and inequality - if they win power it would be bad news, I have no doubt, whether in Cardiff or Westminster. But in a coalition where they are the minority party, they are not in power - Plaid have already said that it will be a parnership on their terms.

Plaid is a party of the left, as is Labour - so you might think that we'd find a lot in common. Our core values are similar and our policy aims are similar. Since 1997 though, Labour have been continuing to build on the Thatcherite legacy, which I doubt is in the interests of the people of Arfon.

I'm on the blog to try and get Martin to explain why Labour has led to an increase in inequality; failing public services; an illegal war; an £85bn waste on nuclear weapons,

Aled said...

So Plaid Cymru is a left leaning party - so why you have you let down your traditional voters like me by voting with the Tories 400 times and won't rule out formaing a coalition with them...

Unless ofcourse you wish to do that now on behalf of your party cymro.

As for politics being about discussing things with people, why not tell that to your candidate.

He has no blog - in fact has no online presence.

He has, unfortunately, been our AM for the last four years - has achieved very little and doesnt even have a website.

Apparently its "coming soon". Anyone would have thought there was an election around the corner...

Martin Eaglestone will be the first Labour candidate I have ever voted for.

I'm fed up of Plaid Cymru letting Arfon down. I'm proud of my area. Proud of its traditions. But I - like many - feel let down by Plaid Cymru who take our votes for granted.

All the sniping from Plaid Cymru members on here - who would be better off spending their time setting up their own blog so we can question what they have achieved after dominating Arfon politically for so long - simply reinforces my intention to vote Labour instead of Plaid for the first time.

I'm sure I'm not alone.

The fact that Arfon is now a marginal seat with Labour in a strong position to in means its understandable that Plaid should feel the need to come on here and offer nothing but negative comments.

But all Plaid Cymru are doing is alienating people like me - people who have voted for you for 20 years - but are fed up with with your lack od delivery and are looking for a real aternative.

For me - and many others - I'm sure that alternative will be Martin Eaglestone.

Cymro said...

Yes, Plaid is a left-leaning party - this means that they will vote against what they disagree with. If the Tories decide to vote that way too, that's their business.

Plaid has kept the options open on a coalition, yes. Why would a sensible party do otherwise? Nobody likes what the Tories stand for - but only a sociopath would deal in black and white. If they, or anybody else, say they want is best for Wales, are we to say that they should never talk to us because they don't agree with us?

As for Alun Ffred not having a blog, I think part of that is down to him being an AM - quite a busy job, I think. When he's in Caernarfon, is it more important for him to answer e-mails; meet people; do something or should he sit blogging?

I quite agree - I'm sure that you won't find a single Plaid member who thinks that enough has been achieved in Arfon. But not much will be achieved without political power.

I don't mean to be personal in attacks on Martin, but I think that since 1997 - when Labour entered power on a wave of optimism - the Westminster and Assembly governments have both failed.

They have become involved in an illegal war. They have wasted enough money to eliminate poverty three times over on replacing Trident and on winning the Olympics for London. We see that, even in Arfon, inequality is higher than at any time since 1961!

Can Martin please explain all that, as I've asked him many times?

Aled said...

But Cymro you fail to answer one point.

Do you ever think that the Tories - the party that the people of Wales have rejected for decades - would ever have the the best interests of Wales at heart?

Yes or No?

If yes - please explain what evidence you have of this.

If no - why not rule out the coalition...something that a life long Plaid voter like me can do quite easily.

Why cant the party that clearly misled me into voting for them do the same?

As for your assertion that Alun Ffred is far too busy to use a website to tell people like me who elected him what he has being doin on our behalf - well thats just absolutely arrogant!

Arfon - and the old Caernarfon seat he was elected too - is a very disperse seat as we all know.

I've had no leaflets from him since I elected him.

I've never seen him in my community.

The very fact he cant even find the time to put up a website - an easy way to connect with people - despite all the staff he has paid by taxpayers and despite the fact that plaid members like you could do it for him beggars belief. Yet another sign of how he's taken elector forgranted.

Still with the boundary changes meaning Plaid are almost certain to lose the Arfon seat to Labour - especially with voters like me sick and tired of being taken for granted by Plaid - he'll soon have plenty more time on his hands.

Maybe that's why his website will be coming soon after all...

Cymro said...

You do raise an interesting point there. How do we know that Tories want what is best for Wales? Answer: we don't. The same is true for Labour and the Lib Dems and all the rest - all English parties who think Welsh nationalism is one big joke. But if someone says that they want to help. do you listen or just throw a hissy fit?

As for Alun Ffred - well, it is true. He is a busy man - so are all elected representatives. And I doubt he would be able to set up his own webpage - but since when were computer skills essential to being elected?

Plaid aren't a rich party with a huge pool of funds - like the London parties - so no, there aren't the resources to pay for someone dedicated to keeping a website - although I am sure that someone in Plaid is reading this and making a note of it.

If you want to see him or want Plaid to send you leaflets, why not phone the office and ask the people to arrange that? If you ask, I'm sure he'll be more than happy to listen to your concerns. Arfon is a big place as you note, there's only one Alun Ffred and he has to be in Cardiff quite a lot!

Can ask you though: if you have voted Plaid for 20 years, why have you defected to an anti-nationalist party? You are obviously on the left yourself, so why back a party that has seen a huge rise in inequality and entered an illegal war? And why blame Plaid for the percieved failure in Arfon, when as a minority party they had limited power to change things?

Martin Eaglestone said...

Crikey I turned my back for a day to attend to some campaign issues and all this goes on ! I was just pointing out that Plaid's claims to dress themselves in respectability hardly match their posters, nor indeed Elfyn's rant in their PB - I'm glad it allowed you all to explore the Plaid/Tory issues. Wasn't Waterfront a laugh !

Aled said...

So here we have it...out in the open

A Plaid Cymru member admits that they cant name one good thing that the Tories would do for Wales. However at the same time - like your party's manifesto - you can list many bad things they have done to Wales.

Yet still you won't rule out a coalition. And you wonder why I will vote Plaid Cymru no more.

When the Tories produce their manisfesto Plaid will no longer be able to plead ignorance about the Tories plans for Wales. If you still cant rule out a coalition then, I think your party will lose heaps more voters like me.

As for Alun Ffred being busy, I'm glad to hear it.

BUt unlike Martin and other candidates standing against him - he gets taxpayers money to pay for staff.

Martin doesn't - and holds down a full time job as well as campaigning as a party candidate - meeting residents, campaigning upon their behalves.

So whats the difference?

Oh yes - Martin takes the time to inform people of his opinions and views through a web site and blog, aiming to connect with as many people as possible.

Alun Ffred on the other hand "is to busy" taking his AM's salary and associated expenses to communicate with his voters like me.

By the way - if he had a blog - I'd love to know how much this "busy" AM claimed in expenses - maybe you could tell me cymro.

As for your insistence that I should contact him if I want to get his leaflets - why should I?

I'm not standing for election - he is.

Yet I've never seen or heard from the man since i voted for him.

And now I have a plaid member telling me if I want to know what he has done in my name for the last four years, I have to contact him!

Plaid Cymru would do well to remember that with the boundary changes they cant continue to take Arfon electors forgranted.

I think Alun Ffred will have a shock on his hand the morning after the elections...when he finds his laid back attitude to the electorate loses him the letters after his name.

Cymro said...

I'm not saying that you have to contact anyone. As for Alun Ffred's staff, I think he gets money for sorting through his paperwork and helping him arrange things; not to do his campaigning for him.

Martin does hold down a full-time job, albeit not semi-permanently in Cardiff. And yes, Martin campaigns and does a lot of good work, so does Alun Ffred, even if he doesn't have the time to keep a blog and doesn't have the computer skills either!

I've never seen Alun Ffred within 10 miles of my village - only walking down Pool Street in Caernarfon with his lunch. But I know he is out there working for me, one of the most intelligent AMs, even if he isn't blessed with omnipresence.

I don't think anyone on the left has ever trusted a Tory. The Tory manifesto is a document without substance.

But let's think a minute. A child is drowning in a river and the only way to save him is to build a human chain with George Bush, who is willing to help. Do you object to working with George Bush because of Iraq? No, you go ahead and save the child, even though it means working with George Bush. The drowning child is Wales.

Aled said...

So Plaid Cymru now see the Tory Party as the saviour for everything that is bad in Wales.

Oh what an eye opener that is...

As for Alun Ffred's staff - they are not just there to deal with case work. They are also there to publicise the work Alan does for the constituency.

Now either they have very few achievements to publicise, or as I suggested earlier he is taking voters forgranted.

Worst still it could even be both.

Either way - how much has he claimed in expenses (ie taxpayers money) over the last 4 years Cymro?

As a Plaid Cymru member - perhaps you could tell us so we could see what value for money we have all been getting.

Cymro said...

So Martin, tell me why the people of Wales should vote for a London-based party who have seen inequality rise to its highest since 1961; entered an illegal war in Iraq; closed our schools and hospitals; wasted £85bn on Trident?

By Martin's own omission, Labour would prefer to let disaster befall Wales than to work in any team to stop it. Martin himsef is ashamed of his party. Labour - cash for honours. Labour: party of lies, sleaze and spin. Labour: party of inequality and waste.

Labour: the party that closes schools and hospitals! The schools and hospitals that we all use, everyday! Labour: party of ruin.

Labour have run out of excuses for 8 years of failure in Cardiff, and 10 years of failure in Westminster. They refuse to discuss their record over the past years.

Why? It is a record of failing Wales. They have no new ideas, no new policies! The only reason they have to offer for keeping them in power is that they are not the Tories! Labour has created as much damage as their Conservative friends while in power. So I say that enough is enough. Labour has a duty to explain its record of failure.